David: help! What is an 11x17” pan? Flo’s recipe calls for that. Thanks for your equivalent note re: rounds, but I need a sheet cake! I am so confused, and after reading a bunch of sites, I’m even more confused! Can a sheet pan with 1” sides handle this recipe and the icing? Could I just use my 9x13 rectangular baking pan? Dumb comments for such an expert, I know. I don’t see an 11x17” pan available with higher sides! Is that a strange choice by Flo? A typo? Ugh. Thank you- you are my guru!!
David, The Magic Pan! Same here and I LOVED the spinach soufflé crepe first with the pecan dessert crepe which my future husband and I would split. We never had much money back then and it was a real treat. As always, food is attached to wonderful memories for me - I wish I could replicate both. Going to bake the devil's food cake this weekend. It's a good thing I don't live in Paris - how do you stay so thin with such delectable choices?
I love Flo's recipes, too, especially in her Miniatures book! I also have happy memories of The Magic Pan, as it was a favorite spot for lunch when I lived in San Francisco.
This isn't a comment on Flo's recipe, but I have noticed that a lot of recipes (perhaps newer ones?) now duplicate the amount of an ingredient in the instructions. In other words, if the ingredient list calls for 1/2 cup sugar, the instructions say, "add 1/2 cup sugar..." I find this annoying because I have to keep looking back at the ingredient list to make sure that's the amount I've measured out in my mise en place. I'm used to listing an amount in the instructions only if the amount in the ingredient list says, for example, "3/4 cup sugar, divided" and only 1/2 cup is being used at that point. Do you, as a recipe-writing professional, know if this is a new trend in recipe writing and, if so, what's the point?
I do that in certain instances, say, where sugar is added to both the cake and frosting, and just to make is clearer for readers, I'll say "Add the 3/4 cup of sugar to the butter" (not repeating the butter quantities. But I usually do it if the same ingredient is used twice in a recipe. I also rarely say "Divided" - but would say "3/4 cup plus 1/4 cup of sugar" as I find that clearer.
If you were to go into my Substack Saves, it'd be all of your newsletters filled to the brim with French restaurant suggestions + recipes I can't wait to make. Thank you! This cake looks like a new birthday staple.
I love your tribute to Flo Braker whom I discovered through a Bon Appetit article on her sweet miniatures. Years ago, I was fortunate to attend a UC Extension course on Taste. In Flo’s class we tasted different chocolates- I still have the handouts and my comments. I remember her generous spirit from the class.
Recently on Doris Greenspans’s FB group, Bake and Tell, one member asked for members favorite baking books. My contribution was to mention you and Flo Braker. I meant to also add Emily Luccetti. My comments received a number of Likes. However, I have been struck by the sheer number of recommendations for East Coast bakers. I think I was the first to mention Left Coast bakers. I am not suggesting publishers favor Easterners, but I have been noticed this before!
Things were different back then. Admittedly, publishers were based in New York, as was (is) the food media, except for Bon Appétit, which was based in Southern California. Hence a lot of things were NY-centric, but Chez Panisse gave visibility to the west coast and more people started paying attention to it. LA didn't have much of a well-known baking culture until Nancy Silverton arrived on the scene (and Sherry Yard, among others..) and now LA has great bakeries and bakers.
The Bay Area had some great bakers, such as Flo, Alice Medrich, Marion Cunningham and Jim Dodge, who wrote well-regarded books. But in general, for a long time (even now) a lot of the focus is on New York since that's where a lot of the media is (or was) based.
I am working on another one that's not been published. The one on my blog is good and I've been testing natural vs Dutch-process cocoas, but have a few more weeks (I think) of trial and errors. My ganache frosting is thicker rather than fluffy so it has a direct chocolate flavor.
I made Flo's after seeing the video & realizing I use the same flour sifter (which I have had forever!), also when I looked in my 1996 "Baking with Julia" I realized I had watched Flo on
PBS episode! So, felt I should make hers..it tasted fine but was almost too light in texture, if
that's even possible. Sooo, I am looking forward to trying your newest version of chocolate cake. Zoe's frosting turned out ok but like some of her other recipes the directions needed to be more specific. Work hard on that new book...maybe you could sneak us a few "previews"
I made the cake yesterday, using cake flour. I found the preparation of the frosting quite awkward - even though my butter was pretty mushy, I could not fully integrate all of the small butter lumps and some remained visible. And then my husband complained about the density of the cake, so there will be no repeat.
What a lovely tribute and wander down memory lane!
I love silpats for cookies, however some recipes are just a better outcome on parchment.
I tried it 2 times with brownies, epic fail. The rise and texture was just not correct for my tried and true brownies (30+ yrs).
Thank you for sharing your trip to Metro... I have been to a Metro in Hanover, Germany with my cousin a few times. They remind me of an old 5 and dime store, restaurant supply store meets Sam's Club!
I remember seeing that pallet of huge nutella tubs👀 my 10 yr old son at rhe time really wanted it . That was to big to bring home on the plane😜
It's the Flo fan lady from Veyrier (Geneva). I've been using T40 (or is it T45?) for this cake as I was told it was close to cake flour. What's your take on that? Or do you recommend doing the cornstarch trick? Thanks for any input. By the way, I tried commenting after you said on Instagram that you weren't crazy about balsamic vinegar and for some reason I wasn't allowed to. I'm so happy I'm not the only one out there who doesn't go wild over it. Now I feel "redeemed".
I just used all-purpose/T65 flour and it came out well, but if you want to try it with another flour, let us know how it turns out. Cake flour is acidic due to the bleaching process but I'm not sure how that corresponds to T45 flour as I don't use it.
Thanks for your input. Maybe French T65 will work better. The cakes are always delicious but never rise enough for my taste. I’ll use both next bakes to compare and will let you know.
I happen to think those flour protein claims are rather bogus. All I care about is the finished product. And I will continue making chocolate cakes from the recipe on Hersey's coco tins.
I too think there is a lot of hand-wringing about them, especially when you see the difference in what King Arthur and Bob's Red Mill has to say about them (and both are well-respected companies.) As King Arthur says, don't worry about it and use all-purpose or cake flour, which is what I did, and the cake came out great.
But I agree with you and bake the way you do, and write recipes so they come out well. We now have everything, from Baker's sugar to Baker's kosher salt, which measure a little differently. But there are so many natural variations in everything, from vanilla extract to chocolate, getting too hung up on all those details aren't the reason people like to bake : )
Thank you for checking that protein content. I think I was just doing a supermarket scan and looking at labels. I'm easily mixed up as well as easily amused. I believe I was looking at GM bread flour.
Just being a home baker/cook/dishwasher I just like my preferred products to work. I like it when things get simpler instead of more complicated.
Now I am going down the rabbit hole following your links. And I was supposed to be cleaning the loo today.
Thank you for introducing some of us to Flo and her work, which I wouldn't have learned about without this post. I've recently been building out the cake baking section of my cookbook collection and was excited to learn about this title and have your recommendation. There are very few copies of any of the editions of this book on the secondary market in the US...which means that folks are hanging onto them! I was happy to snag the 2003 edition. I'm also looking forward to adding The Cake Bible 35th anniversary edition to my stash when it's released later this year.
I'd forgotten Flo's book was re-released twice, in different formats. I looked at Abe's Book and there was one copy...for $239(!) and it was the softcover reedition. Am glad I kept my original!
I am curious- I have never made (or read) a frosting before that uses raw eggs- what is their purpose? And would it be OK to leave the cake out for a couple of days? Assuming it could be defended from hungry thieves….
I don't know what their purpose is as I've not made a frosting before with them, but it certain was delicious! I believe due to the amount of sugar/fat in the frosting, you could leave it out for a day or two (I left mine out for 3 days and still ate it and was fine) but if you have concerned, you can refrigerate the cake, however refrigerating cakes does tend to dry them out, so you may have to share the cake with neighbors or friends to get it eaten more quickly ; )
When I met Flo, she took me out to a fancy Wolfgang Puck restaurant in Palo Alto, where she lived. She knew the pastry chef, who sent out small pieces of every dessert on the menu, maybe about 8! I think she was nervous about getting Flo's approval. Flo insisted on treating me and wanted to talk about the food writing industry and what I should know. She was definitely "a doctor's wife" but so much more than that. She was tough but also a sweetheart.
Your article is So appreciated David! I'm 69 years old and grew up in a Hudson River town - our local bakery which I'd gone to since I was about 7 years old is closing and along with it will be their Chocolate Blackout cake - I have no idea how they made their frosting because it tasted like no other - so I'm excited to try this - my birthday was the 15th of January and my daughters ran down to get me one last cake as they are closing the end of the month - alas, somewhere along the line, perhaps for financial reasons? The frosting was not the same! So thank you for this gift - I trust you to know a great cake - and it will replace my once loved cake which provided so many memories of my childhood, family and memorable occasions in my life! I recently purchased the Kitchen Aid sifter scale to make The Prince of Wales scones which is all in grams etc. and it's fantastic. Williams Sonoma had it on sale for $99. The Prince of Wales is a wonderful historic hotel in Niagara-on-the-Lake in Canada - their hight tea is superb.....Happy New Year and a belated Happy Birthday!
Your wonderful tribute to Flo Braker prompted me to search my modest library of cookbooks. And, “lo and behold” I found the simple art of perfect baking, the 2003 edition, brand new with the photo of devil’s food cake on the cover. I have rarely succeeded at baking, but it’s never too late to try your recipe.
David: help! What is an 11x17” pan? Flo’s recipe calls for that. Thanks for your equivalent note re: rounds, but I need a sheet cake! I am so confused, and after reading a bunch of sites, I’m even more confused! Can a sheet pan with 1” sides handle this recipe and the icing? Could I just use my 9x13 rectangular baking pan? Dumb comments for such an expert, I know. I don’t see an 11x17” pan available with higher sides! Is that a strange choice by Flo? A typo? Ugh. Thank you- you are my guru!!
It's this pan: https://www.nordicware.com/products/naturals-bakers-half-sheet/?srsltid=AfmBOoqKUEvPfVQ5a2UQQ_ZDmZMmpc5BhegU6z1wVuI-xJ0ApA490dnH
(Various companies make slightly different sizes.)
David, The Magic Pan! Same here and I LOVED the spinach soufflé crepe first with the pecan dessert crepe which my future husband and I would split. We never had much money back then and it was a real treat. As always, food is attached to wonderful memories for me - I wish I could replicate both. Going to bake the devil's food cake this weekend. It's a good thing I don't live in Paris - how do you stay so thin with such delectable choices?
I love Flo's recipes, too, especially in her Miniatures book! I also have happy memories of The Magic Pan, as it was a favorite spot for lunch when I lived in San Francisco.
This isn't a comment on Flo's recipe, but I have noticed that a lot of recipes (perhaps newer ones?) now duplicate the amount of an ingredient in the instructions. In other words, if the ingredient list calls for 1/2 cup sugar, the instructions say, "add 1/2 cup sugar..." I find this annoying because I have to keep looking back at the ingredient list to make sure that's the amount I've measured out in my mise en place. I'm used to listing an amount in the instructions only if the amount in the ingredient list says, for example, "3/4 cup sugar, divided" and only 1/2 cup is being used at that point. Do you, as a recipe-writing professional, know if this is a new trend in recipe writing and, if so, what's the point?
I do that in certain instances, say, where sugar is added to both the cake and frosting, and just to make is clearer for readers, I'll say "Add the 3/4 cup of sugar to the butter" (not repeating the butter quantities. But I usually do it if the same ingredient is used twice in a recipe. I also rarely say "Divided" - but would say "3/4 cup plus 1/4 cup of sugar" as I find that clearer.
Thanks! I like it—clarity without repetition.
If you were to go into my Substack Saves, it'd be all of your newsletters filled to the brim with French restaurant suggestions + recipes I can't wait to make. Thank you! This cake looks like a new birthday staple.
I love your tribute to Flo Braker whom I discovered through a Bon Appetit article on her sweet miniatures. Years ago, I was fortunate to attend a UC Extension course on Taste. In Flo’s class we tasted different chocolates- I still have the handouts and my comments. I remember her generous spirit from the class.
Recently on Doris Greenspans’s FB group, Bake and Tell, one member asked for members favorite baking books. My contribution was to mention you and Flo Braker. I meant to also add Emily Luccetti. My comments received a number of Likes. However, I have been struck by the sheer number of recommendations for East Coast bakers. I think I was the first to mention Left Coast bakers. I am not suggesting publishers favor Easterners, but I have been noticed this before!
Thank you again for your tribute to Flo Braker
Things were different back then. Admittedly, publishers were based in New York, as was (is) the food media, except for Bon Appétit, which was based in Southern California. Hence a lot of things were NY-centric, but Chez Panisse gave visibility to the west coast and more people started paying attention to it. LA didn't have much of a well-known baking culture until Nancy Silverton arrived on the scene (and Sherry Yard, among others..) and now LA has great bakeries and bakers.
The Bay Area had some great bakers, such as Flo, Alice Medrich, Marion Cunningham and Jim Dodge, who wrote well-regarded books. But in general, for a long time (even now) a lot of the focus is on New York since that's where a lot of the media is (or was) based.
Dear David...so Did Romain prefer Flo's cake to yours (which I have never tried but was all set to)?
Also, can't decide on the frosting recipe which I want to be fluffy...Zoe Francois has one in her
cake book that looks good but I've never tried. Will be making whichever you say on this Sunday..
No football watching for me. Thanks in advance, Kate in FL
I am working on another one that's not been published. The one on my blog is good and I've been testing natural vs Dutch-process cocoas, but have a few more weeks (I think) of trial and errors. My ganache frosting is thicker rather than fluffy so it has a direct chocolate flavor.
Thanks for the tips...but was Romain over the moon on Flo's vs your new works-in-progress?
I have never made your current chocolate cake recipe but liked the simplicity of it...no need
for a nap to recover from some of my baking projects : )
He liked Flo's and the last one I made, which is probably going in a future book : )
I made Flo's after seeing the video & realizing I use the same flour sifter (which I have had forever!), also when I looked in my 1996 "Baking with Julia" I realized I had watched Flo on
PBS episode! So, felt I should make hers..it tasted fine but was almost too light in texture, if
that's even possible. Sooo, I am looking forward to trying your newest version of chocolate cake. Zoe's frosting turned out ok but like some of her other recipes the directions needed to be more specific. Work hard on that new book...maybe you could sneak us a few "previews"
I made the cake yesterday, using cake flour. I found the preparation of the frosting quite awkward - even though my butter was pretty mushy, I could not fully integrate all of the small butter lumps and some remained visible. And then my husband complained about the density of the cake, so there will be no repeat.
That's unfortunate. I made two other Devil's Food Cakes yesterday and Romain kept telling me, repeatedly, that he liked this one the best!
I have to admit that I have a certain deep-rooted German bias against American cakes: too much dough and too little filling 😉
What a lovely tribute and wander down memory lane!
I love silpats for cookies, however some recipes are just a better outcome on parchment.
I tried it 2 times with brownies, epic fail. The rise and texture was just not correct for my tried and true brownies (30+ yrs).
Thank you for sharing your trip to Metro... I have been to a Metro in Hanover, Germany with my cousin a few times. They remind me of an old 5 and dime store, restaurant supply store meets Sam's Club!
I remember seeing that pallet of huge nutella tubs👀 my 10 yr old son at rhe time really wanted it . That was to big to bring home on the plane😜
It's the Flo fan lady from Veyrier (Geneva). I've been using T40 (or is it T45?) for this cake as I was told it was close to cake flour. What's your take on that? Or do you recommend doing the cornstarch trick? Thanks for any input. By the way, I tried commenting after you said on Instagram that you weren't crazy about balsamic vinegar and for some reason I wasn't allowed to. I'm so happy I'm not the only one out there who doesn't go wild over it. Now I feel "redeemed".
I just used all-purpose/T65 flour and it came out well, but if you want to try it with another flour, let us know how it turns out. Cake flour is acidic due to the bleaching process but I'm not sure how that corresponds to T45 flour as I don't use it.
Here's a deep dive into cake flour: https://www.seriouseats.com/why-no-unbleached-cake-flour
Thanks for your input. Maybe French T65 will work better. The cakes are always delicious but never rise enough for my taste. I’ll use both next bakes to compare and will let you know.
I happen to think those flour protein claims are rather bogus. All I care about is the finished product. And I will continue making chocolate cakes from the recipe on Hersey's coco tins.
I too think there is a lot of hand-wringing about them, especially when you see the difference in what King Arthur and Bob's Red Mill has to say about them (and both are well-respected companies.) As King Arthur says, don't worry about it and use all-purpose or cake flour, which is what I did, and the cake came out great.
Even Gold Medal flour claims 13% protein. I am not really baking for protein content, just so the item comes out well.
That sounded high so I checked and Gold Medal is 11%
https://www.generalmillscf.com/services/productpdf.ashx?pid=54425000#:~:text=INGREDIENT%20LEGEND%20BLEACHED%20WHEAT%20FLOUR,0.59%25%20Maximum%20TREATMENT%20Bleached%201.
America's Test Kitchen did a write up on various flours and their protein content:
https://www.americastestkitchen.com/cooksillustrated/articles/596-a-guide-to-all-purpose-flour-shopping-tips-the-best-brands-and-more
But I agree with you and bake the way you do, and write recipes so they come out well. We now have everything, from Baker's sugar to Baker's kosher salt, which measure a little differently. But there are so many natural variations in everything, from vanilla extract to chocolate, getting too hung up on all those details aren't the reason people like to bake : )
Thank you for checking that protein content. I think I was just doing a supermarket scan and looking at labels. I'm easily mixed up as well as easily amused. I believe I was looking at GM bread flour.
Just being a home baker/cook/dishwasher I just like my preferred products to work. I like it when things get simpler instead of more complicated.
Now I am going down the rabbit hole following your links. And I was supposed to be cleaning the loo today.
Thank you for introducing some of us to Flo and her work, which I wouldn't have learned about without this post. I've recently been building out the cake baking section of my cookbook collection and was excited to learn about this title and have your recommendation. There are very few copies of any of the editions of this book on the secondary market in the US...which means that folks are hanging onto them! I was happy to snag the 2003 edition. I'm also looking forward to adding The Cake Bible 35th anniversary edition to my stash when it's released later this year.
I'd forgotten Flo's book was re-released twice, in different formats. I looked at Abe's Book and there was one copy...for $239(!) and it was the softcover reedition. Am glad I kept my original!
I am curious- I have never made (or read) a frosting before that uses raw eggs- what is their purpose? And would it be OK to leave the cake out for a couple of days? Assuming it could be defended from hungry thieves….
I don't know what their purpose is as I've not made a frosting before with them, but it certain was delicious! I believe due to the amount of sugar/fat in the frosting, you could leave it out for a day or two (I left mine out for 3 days and still ate it and was fine) but if you have concerned, you can refrigerate the cake, however refrigerating cakes does tend to dry them out, so you may have to share the cake with neighbors or friends to get it eaten more quickly ; )
thank you for this David- i don't think eating it faster would be a challenge❣️
Great read. Miss Flo
Cindy
When I met Flo, she took me out to a fancy Wolfgang Puck restaurant in Palo Alto, where she lived. She knew the pastry chef, who sent out small pieces of every dessert on the menu, maybe about 8! I think she was nervous about getting Flo's approval. Flo insisted on treating me and wanted to talk about the food writing industry and what I should know. She was definitely "a doctor's wife" but so much more than that. She was tough but also a sweetheart.
Your article is So appreciated David! I'm 69 years old and grew up in a Hudson River town - our local bakery which I'd gone to since I was about 7 years old is closing and along with it will be their Chocolate Blackout cake - I have no idea how they made their frosting because it tasted like no other - so I'm excited to try this - my birthday was the 15th of January and my daughters ran down to get me one last cake as they are closing the end of the month - alas, somewhere along the line, perhaps for financial reasons? The frosting was not the same! So thank you for this gift - I trust you to know a great cake - and it will replace my once loved cake which provided so many memories of my childhood, family and memorable occasions in my life! I recently purchased the Kitchen Aid sifter scale to make The Prince of Wales scones which is all in grams etc. and it's fantastic. Williams Sonoma had it on sale for $99. The Prince of Wales is a wonderful historic hotel in Niagara-on-the-Lake in Canada - their hight tea is superb.....Happy New Year and a belated Happy Birthday!
Your wonderful tribute to Flo Braker prompted me to search my modest library of cookbooks. And, “lo and behold” I found the simple art of perfect baking, the 2003 edition, brand new with the photo of devil’s food cake on the cover. I have rarely succeeded at baking, but it’s never too late to try your recipe.