Susan was a delight to listen to - definitely someone who doesn't suffer fools and she was quick on everything. It was really interesting to hear about cookbook writing not being lucrative for many and about the profit/loss numbers she'd have to run on every project. Costs to the author on photos and pages/layout were also incredibly interesting. I also loved hearing about she and Marcella Hazan and Julia Child..."Julia was cashing in!" I just died laughing. Bonnes vacances!
Yes, Susan always said what was on her mind and didn't have a problem "telling it like it is." But she did take on authors who weren't lucrative because she was passionate about their subject or felt like the subject needed to be written about.
David, great podcast. Charming guest. One comment: you interrupted Susan once just as she was going to talk about--I think it was well-known cookbook writers. I was sorry to miss her story. That's a classic interview mistake, but I'm sure you won't make it often.
Thanks for taking the time to let me know this. Very kind of you. In the weird world of social media, I feel we're friends because I like you and see/hear/listen to you all the time. You, of course, don't know me from Adam, but I am sure we'd be friends if you did, lol. Kindred spirits for sure. Best to you and Romain.
HI David, loved this interview with Susan Friedland. I want to get a copy of her favorite, The Gourmet Cookbook but am confused by the various editions I'm seeing online. Could you tell me please which one(s) she was referring to? with thanks as ever and very excited about your new apartment. I am following it religiously. best, dede
I took notes on all the cook mentioned! I have a collection but I’m realizing that there are some that are more important to have than others for various reasons. Thank you for the insight. Thank you for your personal insight as well! Looking forward to the next podcast☺️
Absolutely a great podcast. Learned so much about publishing and how it has changed over the decades. Particularly liked the part about accuracy in recipes. We value that way above the flashy pix, etc. Thanks so much for this one- we listened twice!
Yes, the cookbook publishing field has really changed. A lot of publishers (or at least some) go after people with big social media numbers but those books can be hit or miss in terms of sales (and quality) - it's a lot of work to do a cookbook and the most important thing is that the recipes work, although I've learned so much reading the books of Paula Wolfert and Richard Olney, even if I don't make the recipes from them.
I have numerous vintage cookbooks and I love them because I think most of those authors actually tested their recipes! Many of those books have some line drawings at most and no photographs. I was recently at Rabelais in Biddeford, Maine which handles rare and out-of-print cookbooks in the U.S. and the owner said lots of chefs now desire lots of photographs for presentation purposes. I guess I’d rather have one good recipe and forgo the glitzy pix.
Back in the day, before digital photography, you'd budget around $1000 for each picture in a book, which included food and prop stylists, assistants, photographer, film and developing, lunch (!), and studio rental. So having a photo for every recipe wasn't practical, however pictures can really enhance a book and/or help a reader see a finished dish or some steps, to make it easier for them to make it. So you had to make decisions. Yes, you're right - in the long run, I agree that it's better to have a book with good recipes that work rather than a lot of glitz.
For cookbook lovers and wannabe cooks like me, this was delish dish from the food world! Plus, this is one of the few podcasts I will return to. Very inside baseball-ish and, David, you are a natural! P.S. I still own books from "the boys in the Hamptons."
And Ms. Friedland! A woman of wit, intelligence and PERSONALITY. Loved the Hazan story about having to meet before backing up trucks with money, the garlic germ (never heard that before but have always been too lazy to extract the little bugger), and maple syrup.
Can't wait for the next one. Thanks a million for a great start to my day.
I was happy to talk to Susan and she really was part of the great era of cookbook publishing when so many great cookbooks were published that are still considered classics. Susan also has a lot of opinions - and isn't shy about sharing them - but she's a straight-shooter and when she is behind a book and an author, she gave it her all.
This was a fun discussion! As someone who works in publishing, it’s always enjoyable to hear insiders share what book publishing is really like. Among my favourite of her observations: Some recipes are bad, baking is like a science experiment. You can’t taste it. You can’t fix it. And, the publishing P&L is “pure fantasy”. 😂😂😂
People often mistakenly think it's the publishers fault if recipes don't work but it's generally in the author's contract that it's the author's responsibility to do that. (If you work in publishing, you know publishers don't pay to have all the recipes professionally tested in the cookbooks they publish - that would be an overwhelming amount of work....especially to fix recipes that didn't work.)
Susan was a delight to listen to - definitely someone who doesn't suffer fools and she was quick on everything. It was really interesting to hear about cookbook writing not being lucrative for many and about the profit/loss numbers she'd have to run on every project. Costs to the author on photos and pages/layout were also incredibly interesting. I also loved hearing about she and Marcella Hazan and Julia Child..."Julia was cashing in!" I just died laughing. Bonnes vacances!
Yes, Susan always said what was on her mind and didn't have a problem "telling it like it is." But she did take on authors who weren't lucrative because she was passionate about their subject or felt like the subject needed to be written about.
David, great podcast. Charming guest. One comment: you interrupted Susan once just as she was going to talk about--I think it was well-known cookbook writers. I was sorry to miss her story. That's a classic interview mistake, but I'm sure you won't make it often.
Another fascinating interview. So good. ❤️
Thanks for taking the time to let me know this. Very kind of you. In the weird world of social media, I feel we're friends because I like you and see/hear/listen to you all the time. You, of course, don't know me from Adam, but I am sure we'd be friends if you did, lol. Kindred spirits for sure. Best to you and Romain.
Cutting recipes down in the US is why God invented Algebra! I always used a cooking example in telling our daughter why she needed to learn it.
HI David, loved this interview with Susan Friedland. I want to get a copy of her favorite, The Gourmet Cookbook but am confused by the various editions I'm seeing online. Could you tell me please which one(s) she was referring to? with thanks as ever and very excited about your new apartment. I am following it religiously. best, dede
Glad you're enjoying the stories of our new Paris apartment. More to come!
Susan is referring to this edition: https://www.abebooks.com/9780618806928/Gourmet-Cookbook-1000-recipes-Reichl-061880692X/plp or here https://amzn.to/3pNB2pZ (It may be out of print but used copies are available)
I took notes on all the cook mentioned! I have a collection but I’m realizing that there are some that are more important to have than others for various reasons. Thank you for the insight. Thank you for your personal insight as well! Looking forward to the next podcast☺️
thanks so much for replying!
Is there a transcript for the non listeners?
I don't know how that's done, so there isn't at this time.
Absolutely a great podcast. Learned so much about publishing and how it has changed over the decades. Particularly liked the part about accuracy in recipes. We value that way above the flashy pix, etc. Thanks so much for this one- we listened twice!
Yes, the cookbook publishing field has really changed. A lot of publishers (or at least some) go after people with big social media numbers but those books can be hit or miss in terms of sales (and quality) - it's a lot of work to do a cookbook and the most important thing is that the recipes work, although I've learned so much reading the books of Paula Wolfert and Richard Olney, even if I don't make the recipes from them.
I have numerous vintage cookbooks and I love them because I think most of those authors actually tested their recipes! Many of those books have some line drawings at most and no photographs. I was recently at Rabelais in Biddeford, Maine which handles rare and out-of-print cookbooks in the U.S. and the owner said lots of chefs now desire lots of photographs for presentation purposes. I guess I’d rather have one good recipe and forgo the glitzy pix.
Back in the day, before digital photography, you'd budget around $1000 for each picture in a book, which included food and prop stylists, assistants, photographer, film and developing, lunch (!), and studio rental. So having a photo for every recipe wasn't practical, however pictures can really enhance a book and/or help a reader see a finished dish or some steps, to make it easier for them to make it. So you had to make decisions. Yes, you're right - in the long run, I agree that it's better to have a book with good recipes that work rather than a lot of glitz.
For cookbook lovers and wannabe cooks like me, this was delish dish from the food world! Plus, this is one of the few podcasts I will return to. Very inside baseball-ish and, David, you are a natural! P.S. I still own books from "the boys in the Hamptons."
And Ms. Friedland! A woman of wit, intelligence and PERSONALITY. Loved the Hazan story about having to meet before backing up trucks with money, the garlic germ (never heard that before but have always been too lazy to extract the little bugger), and maple syrup.
Can't wait for the next one. Thanks a million for a great start to my day.
I was happy to talk to Susan and she really was part of the great era of cookbook publishing when so many great cookbooks were published that are still considered classics. Susan also has a lot of opinions - and isn't shy about sharing them - but she's a straight-shooter and when she is behind a book and an author, she gave it her all.
Loved this interview with Susan Friesland! Wonderful behind-the-scenes stories and information!
So sorry, I thought I had typed Susan Friedland.
This was a fun discussion! As someone who works in publishing, it’s always enjoyable to hear insiders share what book publishing is really like. Among my favourite of her observations: Some recipes are bad, baking is like a science experiment. You can’t taste it. You can’t fix it. And, the publishing P&L is “pure fantasy”. 😂😂😂
People often mistakenly think it's the publishers fault if recipes don't work but it's generally in the author's contract that it's the author's responsibility to do that. (If you work in publishing, you know publishers don't pay to have all the recipes professionally tested in the cookbooks they publish - that would be an overwhelming amount of work....especially to fix recipes that didn't work.)